Curse

Arkantos · Jun 23, 2009, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Even though they trigger on minions, you're really underestimating the power of union/shelter/displacement. They protection they offer is far too good to give up. By the time the 3 spirits go down, your party will have taken virtually no damage, while the enemy mob is already dropping. These spirits are amazing.

As for DPS on the MM, yeah, it's not the best idea.

PS is nice, but not needed when you have a party wide PS along with a party wide aegis and shielding hands. They're up enough for your team to be able to take down enough foes that they won't be doing much damage.

Just tested the 1 man build in gate of madness HM. My party took virtually no damage from groups of margonites and tormented. By the time union/shelter/displacement were down, the enemy mobs didn't have enough to take a single member down below 70% health. I even aggro'd a group of margonites and tormented and the build managed to keep everyone above 50% health. I did, however, aggro 2 groups, then another one mid battle, which ended up in a party wipe. Going to try it again later.

Neo Nugget · Jun 23, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38

That's insane, I am definitely looking forward to trying that.

Smilin' Assassin · Jun 23, 2009, 03:49 AM // 03:49

.. actually wasn't intending to Vanq .. just wanted to see how well Razah works, and we were having so much fun, our little team cleared the area~!

ok, a few points, this is definitely not an optimum build, as you can see ~

*no cons were used but the Luxon shrine bonus taken (well, it's free jadeite ..)
*Xandra's and Whispers are unchanged from what they were pre-buff, this expedition was mostly to test Razah's build ..
normally I need to micro Xandra's enchants prebattle (they can be upkept), but I didn't worry about any microing this time cos I was focusing on Razah and seeing if he did his stuff on cue (which he did)
*distinct lack of enchant stripping, which was not an issue in this zone
*and no hex removal, which was .. every Binding Chain instantly focused on Alacrity, who was also the only source of interruption ..
I usually put Gwen in Razah's slot, and she handles hex/ench/interrupt/RoJ
*no shortage of minions, we stomped every little crab on the way
*the mobs in that zone are small and easily managed
*wiped three times, first at the Afflicted, second against some nonBoss kd-nuker turtles, and third vs three mobs each with an Outcast Rt
*all three wipes could have been avoided by a less impatient puller
*expected trouble vs the Oni at the bridge, but both groups got tangled up in the minions and were cleaned up in two SplinterBarrages, with some DeathNova + ARage thrown in
*the most annoying fights were any with more than one enemy Rt, as we had no hex removal. The Rt boss was also a pain, but interrupt spam got im:}
*the big turtle nuker boss got into a fight with OutCast, as a result his group was diminished. If we faced a full boss group I'm sure we would have wiped, but with careful pulling + interrupt spam we made it
*best pull strategy is to flag out of aggro, pull, then when some spirits are down flag a few steps behind the spirits. How far away to put the initial flag depends on patrol patterns - can be one step out of aggro if no nearby monsties, but very painful if another mob wanders by.
*yea I do prefer a dagger or scythe build to vanq .. but even then, Ala rarely needs to swap away from her pulling bow:}

So anyway, this is just to share, and maybe peeps will put up better screenies.
the new Rt's can pwn in HM at a halfteam and silly setup .. I'm sure we'd do far better with the combos you've posted ~

Arkantos · Jun 23, 2009, 03:56 AM // 03:56

....Wow. I must say, that's impressive. Now I'm very curious as to how well the 3 heroes Fenix and I put together would work.

Life Bringing · Jun 23, 2009, 04:14 AM // 04:14

I'm attempting to try it atm. Sad thing is that rit runes from the trader are practically non-existent.

fenix · Jun 23, 2009, 04:32 AM // 04:32

We discovered that too, we had to sit next to the Rune Trader for around 15 minutes just to get the right Minor runes...

After seeing that screenshot (very impressive Smilin' Assassin) I'm pretty keen to give our 1 man bars a go with 4. Should work quite well I imagine.

Life Bringing · Jun 23, 2009, 04:44 AM // 04:44

I'm tired of standing next to the rune trader, so im going to go without the second minor spawning. Any area in particular you want me to test?

The whole MM/healer hybrid doesn't work. The necro will cast death nova before attempting to heal something.

Arkantos · Jun 23, 2009, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

I'm tired of standing next to the rune trader, so im going to go without the second minor spawning. Any area in particular you want me to test?

The whole MM/healer hybrid doesn't work. The necro will cast death nova before attempting to heal something.

No areas in particular, you can try it anywhere and let us know what the results are.

As for the MM/healer, yeah, he does seem to use death nova before healing. I'm thinking of changing the MM and SoS builds around - putting the 3 restoration skills on the SoS, and the 3 curses skills on the MM. Also change the MM's elite to jagged bones for more minion bombing. Also going to switch the 2 res skills around.
EDIT: Yeah, making those changes now.

Anyways, I tested the 1 man build in Abaddon's Gate HM. Switched the MM for a divert hexes necro. No deaths, managed to complete it in 10 minutes flat, would have scratched off 1-1 1/2 minutes but I screwed up on one part. Personally I've never heard of anyone doing it HM with h/h in less than 10 minutes, so I'm pretty proud of the results.

Life Bringing · Jun 23, 2009, 05:59 AM // 05:59

I just did Boreas Seabed HM. Took me 19 minutes because i nearly wiped. Daze interrupting Jade Fury saved me and made it a cakewalk, after i realized what i had to do. It's pretty effective, but hard to say if it's better than sabway.

Arkantos · Jun 23, 2009, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Well, I think neither of the builds are outright 'better' than the other. The one man build is still under testing, and will improve. Both builds are great in their own right. I highly doubt I would have been able to do abaddon's gate in 10 minutes with sabway, and I'm sure I'll come across something that I won't be able to do with my build that I will be able to do with sabway.

Life Bringing · Jun 23, 2009, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Probably true. Anyways, i just did Ruins of Morah and it was laughably easy. I just gathered up all the agro on my side of the map and blew everything up, then moved forward and proceeded to blow Varesh up. Took 6 minutes, and i probably wasted 2 trying to pull Commander Varesh up the hill without a longbow...

I also wanted to say that if you need any help updating something on PvX, i'd be happy to do it. I've been active there for a while and know how to get stuff done. I'm Life Guardian over at PvX.

Arkantos · Jun 23, 2009, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Was thinking of trying it out there, glad to know it works great. And thanks for the offer.

Riot Narita · Jun 23, 2009, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seri

Out of curiosity, would this build work in DoA as a 2 man? Or what would you need to modify to get it to work?

Me and a guildmate used the 2-person team in DoA last night. We did Ravenheart Gloom, Normal Mode, no consumables.

I was a R/W using Ignited, Incendiary, Triple and dual... FGJ! and putting up SY! as much as I could. Guildmate was a damage-dealing monk... and neither of us are familiar with the DoA areas or quests. Or the team build for that matter.

And yet we almost succeeded in the Gloom on our first attempt. It all went wrong when we were laughing at how easy those Darknesses were... and then "err... where did those 30 earth tormentors come from?!" My guild-mate escaped with one hero... but the hero had no rez, and he had no scrolls. We had to resign. Once we knew what we were doing, we completed the area fairly easily.

We had a quick go at the Foundry, normal mode. Same team, no consumables. Once again, neither of us knew the area, or the quest. We got through the first two rooms easy. Third room we got wiped... again beause we kept blowing stuff up randomly, and spawning too many new enemies. Plus we were all huddling in a corner trying to avoid aggroing patrols, which didn't work because we still ended up fighting at least three groups at once. AoE spells were devastating against us as we were bunched up. We could see how the battle was going to end, with so many enemies running around... and yet it took a surprising amount of time before we finally succumbed.

Like most builds, it could probably use some tweaks for different areas like DoA - but it kind of works in DoA already... and I'm sure it will improve as the build is refined.

Amazing team build. I figure if we can get that far in DoA, the build will steamroller other areas that we are familiar with, and that do not have such gigantic mobs. Hard Mode included.

Arkantos · Jun 23, 2009, 08:14 AM // 08:14

If you can manage to do some DoA (even if it's NM) with no knowledge, I'm sure with some tweaks this build should be able to do fairly well in HM with users with knowledge/experience of DoA.

Life Bringing · Jun 23, 2009, 08:38 AM // 08:38

You would need to fit in massive hex removal for a full clear. I also doubt that this could take down the giant group of margos at the end of city, the hungers in veil, or the Fury. Might have a slim chance in NM, but no chance in HM.

EDIT: It's probably possible with a 3 man/5 hero build in NM. I know there's a build somewhere on pvx that takes 5 necros and 3 players and can do it pretty easily.

Abedeus · Jun 23, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

This build rules in Asuran areas. I used to hate them, but now that spirits take most of damage and don't need corpses, those bosses hitting for 400 dmg and deep wound are effortless.

Also, someone should try Shards of Orr, it's pretty easy if you swap one of the necros to a Smiting N/Mo with Ray of Judgment.

Arkantos · Jun 23, 2009, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

You would need to fit in massive hex removal for a full clear. I also doubt that this could take down the giant group of margos at the end of city, the hungers in veil, or the Fury. Might have a slim chance in NM, but no chance in HM.

EDIT: It's probably possible with a 3 man/5 hero build in NM. I know there's a build somewhere on pvx that takes 5 necros and 3 players and can do it pretty easily.

Well, with tweaks for each zone and human ritualists, I'm sure it's possible. Fenix and I just created rits and we're going to try some elite missions. Going to take a few days, though.

Quote:

This build rules in Asuran areas. I used to hate them, but now that spirits take most of damage and don't need corpses, those bosses hitting for 400 dmg and deep wound are effortless.

Glad to know it's effective there. I hate those zones.

Life Bringing · Jun 23, 2009, 09:21 AM // 09:21

I also just did ToPK lvl 1 in HM. I didn't have time to continue, but the whole thing should be pretty easy. Needs some quick flagging to get out of meteor shower. I've also noticed that heroes are really weird with spirit siphon. Occasionally when microing it, the hero will run across the compass to an earlier laid spirit, even if there is one right next to them.

Arkantos · Jun 23, 2009, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Yeah, heroes suck at using it if you micro it. I've had times where I micro'd it and they refused to use it, even though there were 5 spirits beside them. They also aren't the greatest at using it by themselves either, as they'll use it twice in a row while beside the same spirit.

Bill Clinton · Jun 23, 2009, 10:38 AM // 10:38

So Ark, what are you considering to swap around and tweak on the builds? I think the MM/Healer Hybrid is the biggest problem atm.

I was just attempting to vanquish the Grothmaw wardowns with this. Its awesome against all the wildlife, but three times now the charr have ended up wiping my team to the point where i've had too much DP to go on.

Even with the battle standard of courage, EVAS and full minions i'm finding the charr a very very formidible opponenet.